1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920 [Music] 2 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:13,920 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:22,510 --> 00:00:16,850 [Applause] 5 00:00:24,980 --> 00:00:22,520 [Music] 6 00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:24,990 yes it's the skipping zone podcast 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:28,230 episode number 478 for the 17th of 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:31,650 December 2017 Richardson is here with 9 00:00:38,450 --> 00:00:34,410 you from a very thundery Sydney 10 00:00:49,539 --> 00:00:38,460 Australia in fact I just recorded this a 11 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:49,549 moment ago you ghost unit knee Australia 12 00:00:53,780 --> 00:00:52,110 coming up on this week's show well it's 13 00:00:56,180 --> 00:00:53,790 a slightly shorter version of the show 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:56,190 this week Christmas time coming up all 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:00:58,650 sorts of things happening but never fear 16 00:01:02,660 --> 00:01:00,330 we can always rely on girl may not to 17 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:02,670 bring us some content her last week in 18 00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:04,320 fact we had Sydney skeptics in the pub 19 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:06,750 with our special guest the documentary 20 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:09,330 filmmaker Sam Hutchinson talking about 21 00:01:14,660 --> 00:01:11,280 his movie he's upcoming our project 22 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:14,670 conspirator ality the interesting 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:17,910 project indeed where he spends time with 24 00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:20,490 true believers in UFOs and monsters and 25 00:01:26,180 --> 00:01:23,280 things like that and gets their point of 26 00:01:31,610 --> 00:01:26,190 view we have a chat to various pub goers 27 00:01:33,530 --> 00:01:31,620 to get their impressions of Sam's talk 28 00:01:35,650 --> 00:01:33,540 some people thought he was are doing a 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:35,660 good thing some people didn't in fact 30 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:38,850 may not also talks to Sam about his 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:41,610 project links in the show notes also 32 00:01:45,649 --> 00:01:43,770 included in that is a grain of salt with 33 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:45,659 a rancer give a mini grain of salt 34 00:01:49,970 --> 00:01:47,850 where ron gives his thoughts and 35 00:01:53,690 --> 00:01:49,980 opinions on the recent changing of the 36 00:01:56,090 --> 00:01:53,700 law here in australia to amend the 37 00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:56,100 Marriage Act marriage equality following 38 00:01:59,450 --> 00:01:57,510 that it's a story from the Australian 39 00:02:01,310 --> 00:01:59,460 skeptics website by Tim Mendham about 40 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:01,320 the efforts being made by the 41 00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:05,310 anti-vaxxers to raise more money then to 42 00:02:13,550 --> 00:02:07,590 round off the show it's radio clip I did 43 00:02:15,259 --> 00:02:13,560 just last week who more Thunder here in 44 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:15,269 Sydney where I went into the studios of 45 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:17,580 talking lifestyle that's the name of the 46 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:21,209 radio station and I bent some spoons 47 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:23,130 over the good old spoon bending on the 48 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:24,870 radio anyway it was a lot of fun I'll 49 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:25,970 play some of that a little bit 50 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:28,700 later on to round off the show oh hello 51 00:02:40,860 --> 00:02:30,170 Lord the cats just jumped into the 52 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:43,090 think she's quite interested in the rain 53 00:02:47,350 --> 00:02:46,010 coming down and the Thunder well oh 54 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:47,360 there's bright sunshine there must be a 55 00:02:53,410 --> 00:02:49,910 rainbow somewhere but now it's time for 56 00:02:56,830 --> 00:02:53,420 me to run downstairs have some nice let 57 00:02:57,990 --> 00:02:56,840 me see some tuna chili tuna chili tuna 58 00:03:00,370 --> 00:02:58,000 on toast 59 00:03:02,290 --> 00:03:00,380 hello another bird it's all happening 60 00:03:16,050 --> 00:03:02,300 here while I do that I hope you enjoy 61 00:03:23,830 --> 00:03:21,000 his main art spooky action at the 62 00:03:28,839 --> 00:03:26,680 welcome to skeptics in the pub the 63 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:28,849 exciting time where all the skeptics get 64 00:03:32,260 --> 00:03:30,530 together and they get they just get a 65 00:03:33,970 --> 00:03:32,270 bit judgey just like an Adele album you 66 00:03:35,229 --> 00:03:33,980 know what I mean people it's gonna be 67 00:03:36,970 --> 00:03:35,239 like that tonight except we're gonna 68 00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:36,980 have some UFOs flying around they're 69 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:38,620 gonna talk about some of cryptozoology 70 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:41,330 I'm just gonna find out I'm gonna ask 71 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:43,970 some questions about the West all 66 72 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:45,890 masts your first sighting in Melbourne 73 00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:48,650 because I think the skeptics left it he 74 00:03:51,820 --> 00:03:50,480 ate some humble pie with that one eye 75 00:03:53,259 --> 00:03:51,830 it's what I feel will happen tonight 76 00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:53,269 because it'll be big it's a big night of 77 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:55,280 UFOs it's a big night and cryptids look 78 00:03:59,170 --> 00:03:57,890 out actually since I'm sitting here you 79 00:04:01,300 --> 00:03:59,180 might be thinking what are some of your 80 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:01,310 favorite UFO sightings maenad well one 81 00:04:05,830 --> 00:04:03,290 of the ones that I've been interested in 82 00:04:08,650 --> 00:04:05,840 lately was one that was that recently 83 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:08,660 mentioned by the guy from blink 182 when 84 00:04:12,339 --> 00:04:10,130 he was talking about his company he's 85 00:04:14,350 --> 00:04:12,349 formed to go into the space and stars 86 00:04:16,330 --> 00:04:14,360 beyond and that is the attack shaped 87 00:04:18,909 --> 00:04:16,340 object that persisted during daylight 88 00:04:20,379 --> 00:04:18,919 and seemed to go up and down and up and 89 00:04:22,330 --> 00:04:20,389 down some people say it's actually a 90 00:04:24,159 --> 00:04:22,340 photo of a plane taken from behind from 91 00:04:26,260 --> 00:04:24,169 a distance but other people insist that 92 00:04:28,029 --> 00:04:26,270 it is genuinely an anomalous object 93 00:04:31,150 --> 00:04:28,039 that's from 2005 just look up the 94 00:04:34,060 --> 00:04:31,160 tick-tack UFO the other one I like to 95 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:34,070 point out is the Chicago Airport UFO 96 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:37,570 which apparently a UFO hovers over a 97 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:41,530 departure gate at Chicago O'Hare Airport 98 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:43,970 and it looked a bit like a doughnut for 99 00:04:47,980 --> 00:04:45,140 a period of time and then it shot 100 00:04:51,490 --> 00:04:47,990 straight up some people say it is 101 00:04:53,170 --> 00:04:51,500 behaving like a cloudbank inversion but 102 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:53,180 no one's actually got a good photo of it 103 00:04:55,570 --> 00:04:54,410 so we don't know so that's another one 104 00:04:58,300 --> 00:04:55,580 to look up as far as your first 105 00:05:01,000 --> 00:04:58,310 sightings go I've mentioned the West all 106 00:05:04,719 --> 00:05:01,010 66 sighting already and the other one 107 00:05:09,109 --> 00:05:07,039 Rendlesham forest that's always a famous 108 00:05:11,059 --> 00:05:09,119 one there was actually some touching of 109 00:05:11,539 --> 00:05:11,069 the UFO and a bit of an ESP thing going 110 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:11,549 on there 111 00:05:14,599 --> 00:05:13,289 how do you feel about these sightings 112 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:14,609 which have you've got a favorite UFO 113 00:05:18,499 --> 00:05:16,409 sighting you'd like to mention yeah the 114 00:05:22,249 --> 00:05:18,509 one I want to see next next week 115 00:05:25,159 --> 00:05:22,259 hopefully I I did see ah you know when I 116 00:05:27,559 --> 00:05:25,169 was a kid I remember waking up one night 117 00:05:32,479 --> 00:05:27,569 looking at the window I think and of 118 00:05:36,259 --> 00:05:32,489 this bright light it was falling slowly 119 00:05:38,449 --> 00:05:36,269 to the ground and to this day I've not 120 00:05:40,699 --> 00:05:38,459 yet uncovered what it was it was like a 121 00:05:42,499 --> 00:05:40,709 flare but there was no aircraft in the 122 00:05:44,869 --> 00:05:42,509 sky so that was a bit strange I'd like 123 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:44,879 to see that one again actually you know 124 00:05:49,699 --> 00:05:46,649 there are some people who say why do you 125 00:05:51,019 --> 00:05:49,709 skip big deny the phenomenon of UFOs and 126 00:05:53,299 --> 00:05:51,029 do you think that's a fair comment to 127 00:05:54,139 --> 00:05:53,309 say that skeptics deny the phenomenon of 128 00:05:56,719 --> 00:05:54,149 UFOs 129 00:06:00,169 --> 00:05:56,729 well what skeptics I've never denied it 130 00:06:01,909 --> 00:06:00,179 I mean if you mean unidentified flying 131 00:06:03,549 --> 00:06:01,919 objects well of course you can't 132 00:06:06,379 --> 00:06:03,559 that's ridiculous of course there are 133 00:06:09,439 --> 00:06:06,389 unidentified flying objects and even if 134 00:06:12,499 --> 00:06:09,449 you stretch it and say alien spaceships 135 00:06:14,119 --> 00:06:12,509 so we don't deny them that's not it's 136 00:06:16,939 --> 00:06:14,129 not the right way to look at the court 137 00:06:19,129 --> 00:06:16,949 the problem or the question is that we 138 00:06:21,229 --> 00:06:19,139 don't accept them without credible 139 00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:21,239 evidence that's different to denying 140 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:23,280 them 141 00:06:30,500 --> 00:06:28,110 I ran Segovia he was a member of the 142 00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:30,510 shadowy elite and are you for one we're 143 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:32,400 very pleased that the capital of the 144 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:35,010 reduce one's been recognized our you 145 00:06:40,970 --> 00:06:39,570 happy about that I have you instrumental 146 00:06:42,650 --> 00:06:40,980 in having it moved I believe you made 147 00:06:48,050 --> 00:06:42,660 the call to trump and said mate Tel Aviv 148 00:06:50,540 --> 00:06:48,060 out Jerusalem anywhere job as a member 149 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:50,550 of the shadowy elite I think Trump is a 150 00:06:57,650 --> 00:06:55,050 [\h__\h] and I can I can I quote no 151 00:07:00,680 --> 00:06:57,660 allegiance from Facebook certainly can 152 00:07:02,540 --> 00:07:00,690 no is a guy who is very when it comes to 153 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:02,550 like you know Trump and foreign policy I 154 00:07:07,190 --> 00:07:05,370 think know is probably on the money no 155 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:07,200 illusion said if the rationale behind 156 00:07:10,850 --> 00:07:08,910 recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's 157 00:07:13,190 --> 00:07:10,860 capital was to provoke Muslim terrorism 158 00:07:15,290 --> 00:07:13,200 and thus sell the travel ban and other 159 00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:15,300 draconian anti-muslim policies that 160 00:07:19,070 --> 00:07:17,580 would surprise me only in the fact there 161 00:07:23,090 --> 00:07:19,080 was a rationale behind one of Tom's 162 00:07:25,219 --> 00:07:23,100 decisions nothing there's nothing more 163 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:25,229 to add to the whole thing now what are 164 00:07:28,550 --> 00:07:26,370 you expecting here tonight at our 165 00:07:32,030 --> 00:07:28,560 skeptics at the pub look or something 166 00:07:33,710 --> 00:07:32,040 you have to say yes because about 20 167 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:33,720 minutes ago the Parliament of Australia 168 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:36,290 passed the marriage equality bill and 169 00:07:44,210 --> 00:07:40,890 this is something that has been a long 170 00:07:46,219 --> 00:07:44,220 time coming and I'm just I'm really 171 00:07:48,050 --> 00:07:46,229 emotional because I'm so happy about 172 00:07:49,610 --> 00:07:48,060 that you know and that trumps everything 173 00:07:51,950 --> 00:07:49,620 else sorry I've mentioned that word 174 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:51,960 again it's more important than anything 175 00:07:56,830 --> 00:07:53,610 else that will happen today or probably 176 00:08:00,050 --> 00:07:56,840 in the next month it's just wonderful 177 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:00,060 I'm a little bit underwhelmed because I 178 00:08:03,890 --> 00:08:01,890 thought they did it two weeks ago you 179 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:03,900 see so I'm like what what I thought they 180 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:04,410 did already 181 00:08:07,909 --> 00:08:06,570 that was the Senate DA was the House of 182 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:07,919 Representatives see that's when I 183 00:08:11,719 --> 00:08:09,450 started celebrating I've been drunk 184 00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:11,729 since then so I can get drunk again is 185 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:12,960 that what you're saying I'm saying 186 00:08:15,980 --> 00:08:14,160 you've probably been drunk for the past 187 00:08:18,530 --> 00:08:15,990 six years 188 00:08:20,060 --> 00:08:18,540 you know well that's great actually out 189 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:20,070 the flow-on effect through all the other 190 00:08:22,940 --> 00:08:21,690 laws because you can get a lot of laws 191 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:22,950 that now gonna have to be changed 192 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:24,450 because of this all just amended in 193 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:25,710 small ways it's going to be fairly 194 00:08:30,970 --> 00:08:27,570 massive as they're found in the Canadian 195 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:30,980 Parliament I don't know I think so 196 00:08:35,690 --> 00:08:34,260 because now marriage is between two 197 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:35,700 people so you've actually got to change 198 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:37,650 what marriage is in all your other 199 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:40,110 legislation because I don't have to 200 00:08:43,910 --> 00:08:41,730 change it to two people knows the ending 201 00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:43,920 is that this does not affect any other 202 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:46,710 law okay I were able to thought that you 203 00:08:50,030 --> 00:08:48,570 just have to change subtle wording it 204 00:08:51,170 --> 00:08:50,040 that's all cuz where it might have man 205 00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:51,180 the woman you wanted to change they 206 00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:52,800 haven't you see that the thing is the 207 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:55,140 Marriage Act was only changed to between 208 00:08:59,780 --> 00:08:57,690 a man and a woman in 2004 they haven't 209 00:09:01,280 --> 00:08:59,790 had a lot of time to make all these 210 00:09:02,420 --> 00:09:01,290 sweeping changes throughout other Lords 211 00:09:04,490 --> 00:09:02,430 this is not like something that we've 212 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:04,500 had for a hundred and ten years this is 213 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:05,130 new 214 00:09:09,710 --> 00:09:08,010 that changes read to me so oh we've done 215 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:09,720 now is we've back to where we were 216 00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:13,680 essentially in 2004 I my understanding 217 00:09:17,930 --> 00:09:15,540 from quite a lot of reading is that it's 218 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:17,940 not going to affect any other law that's 219 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:19,650 okay so it's basically the the Howard 220 00:09:22,850 --> 00:09:21,690 government's changing it in 2004 that 221 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:22,860 caused the problem in the first place 222 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:23,730 yes 223 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:26,250 now one thing that is interesting is 224 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:28,740 that because of all the because of all 225 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:30,810 the religious objections to marriage 226 00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:34,530 equality that a lot of people a lot of 227 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:36,600 the amendments that were raised were 228 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:38,370 basically to protect people's right to 229 00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:41,970 be bigots these things are going to be 230 00:09:46,790 --> 00:09:43,830 reviewed by a commission established by 231 00:09:49,670 --> 00:09:46,800 Turnball headed by Phillip Roddick is 232 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:49,680 actually the the Commission is actually 233 00:09:54,620 --> 00:09:52,130 or the panel is actually reasonably 234 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:54,630 structured they believe they the head of 235 00:09:58,190 --> 00:09:55,770 the Human Rights Commissioner a 236 00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:58,200 commission is is on it and and if you 237 00:10:02,120 --> 00:09:59,760 are the people so I don't have a problem 238 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:02,130 with a panel itself the thing is it's a 239 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:05,730 panel on on religious freedoms and I do 240 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:07,560 not believe that religious freedoms can 241 00:10:12,710 --> 00:10:10,050 be or freedom of religion cannot be 242 00:10:15,230 --> 00:10:12,720 discussed separately from freedom from 243 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:15,240 religion it's one and one and the same 244 00:10:20,570 --> 00:10:18,930 and I've asked written to the prime 245 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:20,580 minister into my local Member of 246 00:10:25,870 --> 00:10:22,530 Parliament asking them to ensure that 247 00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:25,880 that is discussed as well but received a 248 00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:27,950 this I wouldn't say it was the 249 00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,830 dismissive he was not answer it was a 250 00:10:34,180 --> 00:10:32,720 non answer yeah no an answer not from 251 00:10:36,250 --> 00:10:34,190 the prime minister but for my local 252 00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:36,260 member who is by the way against 253 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:39,440 marriage equality this would be 254 00:10:44,770 --> 00:10:41,690 interesting because because suddenly if 255 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:44,780 you start to create a class of people 256 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:47,450 who are religious that feel slighted 257 00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:49,130 against this disel warmers create 258 00:10:53,020 --> 00:10:50,660 another group that can't be you know 259 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:53,030 yeah but I feel slighted against all the 260 00:10:56,830 --> 00:10:54,950 time by all kinds of things that happen 261 00:10:58,300 --> 00:10:56,840 in Parliament there don't expect laws to 262 00:11:00,760 --> 00:10:58,310 be made especially to prevent me from 263 00:11:02,860 --> 00:11:00,770 being slighted people who want to be 264 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:02,870 religious are perfectly capable of 265 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:04,130 keeping their religion to themselves 266 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:06,770 they're not entitled to impose it on 267 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:09,110 other people and their law of Australia 268 00:11:14,590 --> 00:11:11,500 now permits same-sex couples to marry 269 00:11:16,930 --> 00:11:14,600 thankfully and if you don't want to 270 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:16,940 participate you don't have to but to 271 00:11:19,780 --> 00:11:18,650 discriminate against others is something 272 00:11:26,860 --> 00:11:19,790 that there's no is not allowed in 273 00:11:28,210 --> 00:11:26,870 Australia and that's a good just come 274 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:28,220 into a shadowy corner here which is 275 00:11:32,170 --> 00:11:30,500 probably a great place to talk to Sam 276 00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:32,180 Hutchinson's at the kirkland race and 277 00:11:35,650 --> 00:11:33,830 look what's your experience as a TV 278 00:11:36,910 --> 00:11:35,660 producer recently well I mean what do 279 00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:36,920 you do the pay for the money to go out 280 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:38,720 to the Blue Mountains so recently I 281 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:39,890 finished doing a show for Discovery 282 00:11:42,130 --> 00:11:41,570 Channel dr. Carr's outrageous acts of 283 00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,140 science 284 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:44,240 oh that was a great show really good and 285 00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:46,250 some really good finds from people we 286 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:47,960 haven't seen on TV so the smart 287 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:50,450 intelligent women on TV well done thank 288 00:11:54,190 --> 00:11:52,820 you yeah yeah well yeah there's some 289 00:11:55,690 --> 00:11:54,200 scientists I've never seen before on TV 290 00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,700 and there was trailing I was gay 291 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:57,200 I it's just some English showed some 292 00:11:59,230 --> 00:11:58,490 footage hang on a minute that's an 293 00:12:01,180 --> 00:11:59,240 Australian accent 294 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:01,190 yeah and Tony Martin good yeah it was 295 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:03,290 probably the standout for me well yeah 296 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:05,930 it wouldn't be too hard work oh yes and 297 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:08,210 no some of the comedians were thrown off 298 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:09,710 the meetings the scientists kind of gave 299 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:12,610 him the run for the money oh really yeah 300 00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:14,810 well congratulations on that and I hope 301 00:12:16,630 --> 00:12:15,920 you get another season now that or 302 00:12:18,910 --> 00:12:16,640 something no thank you 303 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:18,920 mmm and and also and also done some work 304 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:20,930 than the ABC - yeah recently finished 305 00:12:25,810 --> 00:12:23,930 off a kids show with Justin Clark so 306 00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:25,820 it's a little bit different dr. Karl's 307 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:28,430 yeah but as anyone within the Australian 308 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:30,260 TV industry you've got to have range or 309 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:31,850 else you're not gonna eat off your shop 310 00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:33,310 you've gotta kind of diversify and 311 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:35,630 Conspirator ality very interesting what 312 00:12:38,499 --> 00:12:36,529 you're working on right 313 00:12:40,119 --> 00:12:38,509 and what you're doing here in Australia 314 00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:40,129 is mirroring what's happening in the 315 00:12:44,819 --> 00:12:42,649 u.s. at the moment cuz the UFO scene and 316 00:12:47,649 --> 00:12:44,829 particularly MUFON scene in the u.s. 317 00:12:50,739 --> 00:12:47,659 spirituality is moving into the UFO seam 318 00:12:52,419 --> 00:12:50,749 there and causing quite a schism MUFON 319 00:12:54,309 --> 00:12:52,429 itself there's people who are leaving it 320 00:12:56,229 --> 00:12:54,319 in droves because it's gone on new agey 321 00:12:58,149 --> 00:12:56,239 instead of nuts and bolts in the sky 322 00:12:59,529 --> 00:12:58,159 kind of thing and this what you're 323 00:13:01,809 --> 00:12:59,539 looking at is kind of an Australian 324 00:13:04,059 --> 00:13:01,819 version of that and I think it's very 325 00:13:06,309 --> 00:13:04,069 interesting there's books like refract 326 00:13:08,169 --> 00:13:06,319 reframing the debate about UFOs which 327 00:13:09,999 --> 00:13:08,179 talks about the very thing you're you're 328 00:13:12,849 --> 00:13:10,009 looking at here you just explain to the 329 00:13:14,709 --> 00:13:12,859 listener in a nutshell how you are 330 00:13:16,959 --> 00:13:14,719 combining the whole nuts and bolts UFO 331 00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:16,969 belief with the spirituality belief that 332 00:13:20,289 --> 00:13:18,889 some of the people you're meeting him so 333 00:13:22,419 --> 00:13:20,299 the guys I'm talking did they have the 334 00:13:24,459 --> 00:13:22,429 spiritual belief they're actually an 335 00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:24,469 offshoot of a u.s. organization called 336 00:13:30,309 --> 00:13:27,169 East SETI so they've just co-opted that 337 00:13:31,749 --> 00:13:30,319 name to form a city Australia I think 338 00:13:34,229 --> 00:13:31,759 it's a trend that's been happening for a 339 00:13:37,209 --> 00:13:34,239 while kind of this male-dominated 340 00:13:40,049 --> 00:13:37,219 nuts-and-bolts field as you know kind of 341 00:13:42,549 --> 00:13:40,059 alienating a few people and this New Age 342 00:13:43,719 --> 00:13:42,559 spiritual movement is kind of coming in 343 00:13:44,769 --> 00:13:43,729 because it's a little bit more positive 344 00:13:46,210 --> 00:13:44,779 if we're gonna be a little bit honest 345 00:13:47,979 --> 00:13:46,220 it's been confusing Duke who says 346 00:13:50,109 --> 00:13:47,989 there's the demand for evidence and the 347 00:13:51,789 --> 00:13:50,119 spiritual field doesn't require that as 348 00:13:53,259 --> 00:13:51,799 much that's that's correct so if you 349 00:13:55,149 --> 00:13:53,269 don't have evidence just knowledge 350 00:13:57,849 --> 00:13:55,159 becomes the capital that you trade off 351 00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,859 to you know basically I don't want to 352 00:14:01,389 --> 00:13:59,839 say create your own evidence but it's 353 00:14:03,369 --> 00:14:01,399 something that gives you power within 354 00:14:05,079 --> 00:14:03,379 that field and I know it's one of the 355 00:14:07,089 --> 00:14:05,089 great techniques you use is you would 356 00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:07,099 say oh well skeptics could say that this 357 00:14:10,749 --> 00:14:09,169 is just not quite right can you do that 358 00:14:12,159 --> 00:14:10,759 question twice in a row because if they 359 00:14:14,589 --> 00:14:12,169 do an explanation and you go well then a 360 00:14:16,329 --> 00:14:14,599 skeptic might say does the the skeptics 361 00:14:17,979 --> 00:14:16,339 aids question work twice in a row with 362 00:14:20,049 --> 00:14:17,989 these people it does actually 363 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:20,059 oh really yeah basically just inhabit 364 00:14:24,539 --> 00:14:21,529 the form of a skeptic and you ask 365 00:14:27,249 --> 00:14:24,549 questions through that mind mouthpiece 366 00:14:28,599 --> 00:14:27,259 it's something I don't like to do but 367 00:14:30,819 --> 00:14:28,609 it's something that I like to do when I 368 00:14:32,390 --> 00:14:30,829 don't want to ask questions that gets 369 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:32,400 him off side 370 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:34,350 also there's been people here that have 371 00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:36,210 been taking of the opinion that you 372 00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:38,400 should be challenging them in that the 373 00:14:43,310 --> 00:14:40,920 documentary makers should be challenging 374 00:14:45,380 --> 00:14:43,320 these thoughts and ideas that they have 375 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:45,390 in some way to bring them back to 376 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:48,210 reality where I'm not with that I'm with 377 00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:50,370 the more like you're documenting you're 378 00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:52,740 showing their world they may be 379 00:14:56,810 --> 00:14:54,630 internally consistent they may not be 380 00:14:58,820 --> 00:14:56,820 but that's your job to show that yeah I 381 00:15:00,440 --> 00:14:58,830 would actually completely agree with 382 00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,450 that it's not my job as a filmmaker to 383 00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,360 get my point of view across I think it's 384 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,760 just about honestly capturing their 385 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:08,160 interpretation of reality it may or may 386 00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:10,050 not be different from mine but it's not 387 00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:12,060 my place to say and do you think there's 388 00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:13,860 a problem sometimes that you could wear 389 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:15,510 a bit that's slipping into exploitation 390 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:17,640 of them as well sometimes that's the 391 00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,410 that's the line so it's writing the line 392 00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:21,420 between having fun and making fun altima 393 00:15:26,390 --> 00:15:23,820 Lee it's very easy to take these people 394 00:15:28,579 --> 00:15:26,400 out of context yeah to ridicule them to 395 00:15:29,690 --> 00:15:28,589 make them the butt of the joke but if 396 00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:29,700 they say something that's a bit out 397 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:31,260 there and a bit ridiculous they said it 398 00:15:36,050 --> 00:15:34,410 don't take it out of context I often 399 00:15:39,250 --> 00:15:36,060 find they come from a place of sincerity 400 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:39,260 and you kind of want to embrace their 401 00:15:43,490 --> 00:15:40,410 sincereness 402 00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:43,500 and just use that to tell the story is 403 00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:44,700 there a point where you'd have to sort 404 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:46,350 of draw a line if there was someone you 405 00:15:50,260 --> 00:15:47,820 were talking to and you thought gee 406 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:50,270 there is really something seriously of a 407 00:15:54,140 --> 00:15:52,410 psychological issue going on here where 408 00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,150 you may feel you have to do something 409 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:55,920 does that ever happen do you think that 410 00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:57,810 might happen I haven't come across that 411 00:16:02,660 --> 00:16:00,480 yet but I look forward to the day when 412 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:02,670 that does come because then that you 413 00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:03,450 know I learn something new about myself 414 00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,339 and I believe you're a follower of Nisha 415 00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:08,160 by the sound of it I'm not overly okay 416 00:16:12,019 --> 00:16:10,110 because you're a bit of nihilist oh yeah 417 00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:12,029 this is my more existential nihilism 418 00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:13,260 everything is pointless that's I think 419 00:16:18,380 --> 00:16:16,260 that's why I don't frame what I'm doing 420 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:18,390 in any sort of you know lens just let it 421 00:16:22,130 --> 00:16:20,730 be what it is and so you said you had a 422 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:22,140 Christian upbringing and then you went 423 00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:24,660 to angry atheist so where are you at the 424 00:16:28,699 --> 00:16:26,790 moment a agnostic atheist or a guy who 425 00:16:30,890 --> 00:16:28,709 just read chapter four of Dawkins hasn't 426 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:30,900 look at so if we look at it as a 427 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:32,490 spectrum and we've got I don't know 428 00:16:36,860 --> 00:16:34,410 maybe complete believer one end complete 429 00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:36,870 skeptic at the other agnostic in the 430 00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:39,360 middle somewhere between agnostic and 431 00:16:42,889 --> 00:16:40,350 scale 432 00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:42,899 and want to engage with you online and 433 00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:44,100 people listening can find out more about 434 00:16:48,139 --> 00:16:46,529 conspira-con spiritualities have I've 435 00:16:49,850 --> 00:16:48,149 got my saying that correctly that's in 436 00:16:51,229 --> 00:16:49,860 spirituality and you've got he got the 437 00:16:51,769 --> 00:16:51,239 domain going on - but where can we find 438 00:16:54,829 --> 00:16:51,779 it 439 00:16:56,569 --> 00:16:54,839 so best place to look is must go faster 440 00:16:58,009 --> 00:16:56,579 on Facebook so it's a little film 441 00:16:59,299 --> 00:16:58,019 collective of them apart off that's 442 00:17:01,009 --> 00:16:59,309 where we get our documentaries out we 443 00:17:03,169 --> 00:17:01,019 also do a stack and on also a stack of 444 00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:03,179 fiction films that do festivals so check 445 00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:04,740 us out on Facebook that's a must go 446 00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:06,240 faster there are some people that 447 00:17:10,669 --> 00:17:08,520 thinking up to me it's great that you're 448 00:17:12,289 --> 00:17:10,679 documenting Outsiders I think that is 449 00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:12,299 really good I think there a story that 450 00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:13,140 needs to be told 451 00:17:16,340 --> 00:17:15,480 but not gonna agrees with that do that 452 00:17:18,049 --> 00:17:16,350 it's like why are you giving these 453 00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:18,059 people the time of day don't they and 454 00:17:21,559 --> 00:17:19,500 how do you answer that when they go and 455 00:17:23,210 --> 00:17:21,569 you go well because I know why you're 456 00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,220 doing it we just say to those people 457 00:17:28,159 --> 00:17:24,720 what kind of what makes you better than 458 00:17:30,159 --> 00:17:28,169 them that's a great answer that's great 459 00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:30,169 thank you very much no worries thank you 460 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:32,880 now we're beam up watching the talk here 461 00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:35,610 tonight and and and you - you seem to 462 00:17:39,169 --> 00:17:37,380 have a bit of an issue with the role the 463 00:17:40,909 --> 00:17:39,179 interviewer should take in such a 464 00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:40,919 documentary what we what you're getting 465 00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:44,700 at there sorry there's a microphone 466 00:17:48,909 --> 00:17:45,929 that's the only way we're gonna hear 467 00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:48,919 it's interesting what he was saying I 468 00:17:53,419 --> 00:17:51,870 compared himself to lehre thorough and 469 00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:53,429 who is a psychopath 470 00:17:59,120 --> 00:17:55,950 oh no sorry sociopath Louis Theroux is a 471 00:18:00,649 --> 00:17:59,130 sociopath he's a voyeur but I bet he can 472 00:18:02,149 --> 00:18:00,659 survive quite well in America where 473 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:02,159 where everything's aggressive over there 474 00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:04,230 and and what Sam saber has done he 475 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:06,960 participated in it and betters 476 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:08,010 interesting some of the questions that 477 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:09,690 will sit out words that he understood 478 00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:11,070 that some of these people didn't have 479 00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:13,529 issues so it's a bit as a very good 480 00:18:17,210 --> 00:18:15,179 thing he's a very good documentary went 481 00:18:19,850 --> 00:18:17,220 out when I'll say it but I mean like 482 00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:19,860 these people needed 483 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:24,510 support and and some of them did have 484 00:18:29,269 --> 00:18:27,330 charisma and so do you think in some 485 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:29,279 ways he's doing some harm by not 486 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:30,809 pointing out to them at the time there's 487 00:18:35,659 --> 00:18:32,610 something wrong I don't think he's doing 488 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:35,669 any harm at all I'll be interesting 489 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:37,710 seeing what he has to be if he's 490 00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:39,390 documented his publicize I would love to 491 00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,960 see it 492 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:41,760 and what did you make of his documentary 493 00:18:48,019 --> 00:18:45,120 style I actually disagree I think he's 494 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:48,029 doing some harm if he's showing support 495 00:18:56,539 --> 00:18:52,320 but not providing some logical alternate 496 00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:56,549 reasoning objections to what these 497 00:19:00,560 --> 00:18:58,440 people are presenting I mean he won't be 498 00:19:02,450 --> 00:19:00,570 able to get into their world unless he 499 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:02,460 actually plays along and he's playing 500 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:05,730 along and that just feeds into it as one 501 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:07,350 of our other speakers tonight said it 502 00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:10,289 creates a feedback loop on his his 503 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:12,600 documentary style and that isn't 504 00:19:18,649 --> 00:19:16,230 necessarily going to support the people 505 00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:18,659 he's presenting and it's also not 506 00:19:22,610 --> 00:19:20,220 actually going to support any kind of 507 00:19:25,159 --> 00:19:22,620 skeptics rational view of what's really 508 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:25,169 going on but if he does that he probably 509 00:19:28,250 --> 00:19:27,510 won't get as good a documentary because 510 00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:28,260 he's going to spend the whole time 511 00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,580 arguing with that agree but then again 512 00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:34,320 I don't think he's actually progressing 513 00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:35,760 anything and I think is actually helping 514 00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:37,919 out our understanding of what's going on 515 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:39,960 and it's not helping those people that 516 00:19:44,269 --> 00:19:42,570 is actually making a documentary on so I 517 00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:44,279 see that there's no actual real value in 518 00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:45,289 what he's doing 519 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:47,070 just come on the back here with Jessica 520 00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:49,289 and like I've been talking to people and 521 00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,480 we seem to be having two distinct 522 00:19:55,159 --> 00:19:53,760 opinions are from Sam's talk tonight 523 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:55,169 this the people who think that he should 524 00:19:59,659 --> 00:19:56,850 be challenging these people that he's 525 00:20:02,570 --> 00:19:59,669 interviewing in order to offer them some 526 00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:02,580 help or a view into perceived consensus 527 00:20:06,889 --> 00:20:04,950 reality and the other view is that 528 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:06,899 between his mine is that he's a he's 529 00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:08,370 just documenting what they do and it's 530 00:20:13,399 --> 00:20:10,350 not his role to challenge them now as 531 00:20:15,379 --> 00:20:13,409 the skeptics what do you think oh I 532 00:20:17,870 --> 00:20:15,389 think definitely as a documentary maker 533 00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:17,880 in a journalist his role is to document 534 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:20,700 not to get involved and not to challenge 535 00:20:27,259 --> 00:20:24,330 and if you think there's a danger in 536 00:20:29,870 --> 00:20:27,269 enabling them by not saying anything to 537 00:20:36,270 --> 00:20:34,350 possibly maybe if there was it if there 538 00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:36,280 was a mental illness involved and there 539 00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:38,440 was a possibility of self-harm 540 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:41,590 maybe it's journalistic ethics is 541 00:20:48,029 --> 00:20:44,710 actually not my not my area because I'm 542 00:20:50,730 --> 00:20:48,039 not not a journalist but I understand 543 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:50,740 these are people who are in many ways 544 00:20:55,650 --> 00:20:53,530 outsiders and having a documentary about 545 00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,660 outsiders and the way they think I've 546 00:21:00,930 --> 00:20:57,760 not had a problem with yeah not a bad 547 00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:00,940 thing at all I think you know it helps 548 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:04,960 in understanding them it helps in the 549 00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:07,450 understanding that they're human if 550 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:09,960 you're we're all humans we're all flawed 551 00:21:14,909 --> 00:21:12,730 we all have our problems maybe these 552 00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:14,919 maybe these problems maybe these people 553 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:17,260 have more problems than other people who 554 00:21:36,650 --> 00:21:30,540 [Music] 555 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:36,660 what does Christmas mean to you does it 556 00:21:41,150 --> 00:21:39,090 mean the big guy in the red suit does it 557 00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:41,160 mean get another crappy Christmas song 558 00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:47,640 like this one or does it mean getting 559 00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:49,980 along to a very bunga bunga Christmas 560 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:51,780 that's right the happiest kingdom of 561 00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:53,970 them all will be at the mighty Howell 562 00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:57,600 Park Hotel at 7:30 on Tuesday the 19th 563 00:22:01,460 --> 00:21:59,820 of December where Tim Ferguson of the 564 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:01,470 Doug Anthony all-stars of everything 565 00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:03,330 that's funny ever in the history of 566 00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:05,520 Australian comedy and myself will be on 567 00:22:10,910 --> 00:22:08,280 stage will be having a quiz will be 568 00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:10,920 mucking about will be labelling people 569 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:13,440 and I can almost guarantee you that the 570 00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:15,330 show that is recorded on the night will 571 00:22:19,970 --> 00:22:17,070 only be half what we actually do find 572 00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:19,980 out what's so good about the other half 573 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:22,620 maybe it's not well maybe a skeptic you 574 00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:24,210 should go along and find out it's your 575 00:22:29,030 --> 00:22:27,840 job to skeptically analyze comedy and to 576 00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:29,040 the point that it's not funny anymore 577 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:31,500 that's a very bunga bunga Christmas 578 00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,200 Tuesday the 19th of December at the help 579 00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:36,000 her hotel in Sydney get along there 580 00:22:39,410 --> 00:22:37,860 tickets available online just go along 581 00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:39,420 and look for a very bunga bunga 582 00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:41,520 Christmas in the Google machine or go to 583 00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:44,340 Maynard com dodo you and there on the 584 00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:46,350 front page you'll see a post about it as 585 00:22:49,460 --> 00:22:47,790 well as all the other Christmas Post 586 00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:49,470 I've been doing a podcast today for you 587 00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:51,030 people you haven't even been listening 588 00:22:54,980 --> 00:22:53,190 you ungrateful but you will be grateful 589 00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:54,990 if you go along to a very bunga bunga 590 00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:57,600 Christmas and say inspiring things like 591 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:00,720 you're tired or something like that ho 592 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:02,730 ho ho that's a very bunga bunga 593 00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:06,130 Christmas Maynard ponder a goob 594 00:23:32,029 --> 00:23:28,720 [Music] 595 00:23:35,330 --> 00:23:32,039 and evac sir Merrill Dory on the hunt 596 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:35,340 for money money money and this story 597 00:23:39,259 --> 00:23:36,570 comes to us from the website of 598 00:23:42,169 --> 00:23:39,269 Australian skeptics skeptics kaamdar you 599 00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:42,179 published on the 29th of November by Tim 600 00:23:48,649 --> 00:23:47,460 Minton you too could make Merrill Dory's 601 00:23:51,619 --> 00:23:48,659 dream come true 602 00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:51,629 the anti-vaxxer and on-again-off-again 603 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:53,990 head of the Australian M 604 00:24:02,210 --> 00:23:57,690 anti-vaccination skeptics Network a V s 605 00:24:06,169 --> 00:24:02,220 n is trying to raise $5,000 per month 606 00:24:08,289 --> 00:24:06,179 via patreon site to quote help make my 607 00:24:11,779 --> 00:24:08,299 dream of widespread vaccination 608 00:24:14,269 --> 00:24:11,789 education become a reality and nearly as 609 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:14,279 important make non compulsory 610 00:24:19,629 --> 00:24:16,590 vaccination the anti-choice governments 611 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:19,639 and farmers biggest nightmare n quote 612 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:22,049 she says that when she reaches two 613 00:24:27,950 --> 00:24:24,330 thousand dollars per month from patreon 614 00:24:30,889 --> 00:24:27,960 she will start quote bi-weekly free 615 00:24:32,509 --> 00:24:30,899 webinars to keep everyone up to date on 616 00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:32,519 the most recent news and information 617 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:34,440 from around the world regarding 618 00:24:39,409 --> 00:24:36,740 vaccinations and health rights in quote 619 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:39,419 if she reaches five thousand dollars per 620 00:24:44,989 --> 00:24:42,330 month she will launch quote my first 621 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:44,999 in-depth class free to the public 622 00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:47,850 unquote this class will she says provide 623 00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:49,710 parents and health professionals quote 624 00:24:54,889 --> 00:24:52,230 with a broad range of historical and 625 00:24:57,019 --> 00:24:54,899 up-to-date references and outlining some 626 00:25:00,049 --> 00:24:57,029 of the questions they need to be asking 627 00:25:02,659 --> 00:25:00,059 before they say yes or no to 628 00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:02,669 vaccinations main quote donors get 629 00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:04,470 nothing in return for their support 630 00:25:10,580 --> 00:25:07,740 apart from advanced notice of webinars 631 00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:10,590 and an invitation to join her private 632 00:25:15,409 --> 00:25:13,529 Facebook group Dory has raised money in 633 00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:15,419 the past which has not gone to the 634 00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:19,679 project described in 2016 the SAV n 635 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:21,720 raised money for a high-court challenge 636 00:25:26,260 --> 00:25:23,330 to the no jab no 637 00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,270 play legislation PSA VN was told some 638 00:25:31,950 --> 00:25:28,400 time after raising the money that the 639 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:31,960 action was unlikely to succeed but the 640 00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:35,690 150,000 dollars plus raised has as of 641 00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:38,000 last notice not been returned to donors 642 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:41,270 the SA VN reported that the total cost 643 00:25:47,230 --> 00:25:45,410 of the legal advice was 72 thousand five 644 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:47,240 hundred and twenty-six dollars and 37 645 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:50,570 cents leaving the organization with more 646 00:25:56,110 --> 00:25:53,810 than 70 thousand dollars this led the 647 00:25:58,420 --> 00:25:56,120 New South Wales government to institute 648 00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:58,430 an investigation into the s avians 649 00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:01,520 fund raising activities in April of this 650 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:03,950 year New South Wales innovation and 651 00:26:08,770 --> 00:26:05,930 better regulation Minister ordered 652 00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:08,780 another inquiry into the SA VN following 653 00:26:13,090 --> 00:26:11,270 complaints that it may have been seeking 654 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:13,100 donations from the public illegally 655 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:16,330 under the charitable fund raising Act 656 00:26:21,610 --> 00:26:19,610 1991 individuals or groups seeking 657 00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:21,620 donations from the public for charitable 658 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:25,310 purposes may require an authority to 659 00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:26,870 raise funds the New South Wales 660 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:29,510 Government Licensing Service had already 661 00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:32,570 removed the s avians charity licence in 662 00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:36,080 2014 as of November 28 this year that 663 00:26:45,779 --> 00:26:43,379 and that update comes to us from the 664 00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,789 website of Australian skeptics skeptics 665 00:26:59,800 --> 00:26:47,760 calm day you 666 00:27:05,290 --> 00:27:03,350 hi this is Heidi Robertson from the 667 00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:05,300 Northern Rivers vaccination supporters 668 00:27:10,730 --> 00:27:08,180 we are a group of concerned citizens 669 00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:10,740 dedicated to promoting good science and 670 00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:13,380 common sense in our region the far north 671 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:16,500 coast of New South Wales this area are 672 00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:18,060 famous for its natural beauty and 673 00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:21,240 relaxed lifestyle also has the lowest 674 00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:24,750 rates of vaccination in Australia we are 675 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:27,030 out to change that by challenging the 676 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:29,370 myths and misinformation and by 677 00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:31,050 providing good evidence-based 678 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:34,380 information to the community we'd love 679 00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,210 for you no matter where you are in the 680 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:39,840 world to join our fight please visit our 681 00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:47,610 webpage at wwlp.com we also have a link 682 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:50,700 there to our Facebook page tweet us at 683 00:27:57,170 --> 00:27:54,570 in our FAQs supporters that's VIX and 684 00:27:59,810 --> 00:27:57,180 check us out on Wikipedia by searching 685 00:28:01,600 --> 00:27:59,820 for Northern Rivers vaccination 686 00:28:15,729 --> 00:28:01,610 supporters thank you 687 00:28:19,939 --> 00:28:18,349 because every Tuesday we have our man 688 00:28:22,129 --> 00:28:19,949 from the Australian skeptics Richard 689 00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:22,139 Saunders he's talked about uri geller he 690 00:28:26,449 --> 00:28:24,539 was the bloke who was causing sensations 691 00:28:28,579 --> 00:28:26,459 on the Don Lane show over those years 692 00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:28,589 when he go on there and spin spoons 693 00:28:32,089 --> 00:28:30,569 was the late 70s wasn't a try Israeli 694 00:28:34,249 --> 00:28:32,099 psychic I think he claimed that he'd 695 00:28:36,139 --> 00:28:34,259 been given this gift by visiting aliens 696 00:28:38,059 --> 00:28:36,149 and somehow was able to bend all the 697 00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:38,069 cutlery all around the world actually no 698 00:28:40,369 --> 00:28:38,849 matter where he went 699 00:28:41,899 --> 00:28:40,379 Richard joins us this morning good 700 00:28:43,849 --> 00:28:41,909 morning good morning now you're in the 701 00:28:46,399 --> 00:28:43,859 studio and you've brought CBS metal 702 00:28:49,309 --> 00:28:46,409 spoons in here we've checked that 703 00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:49,319 they're metal at the mayor they media 704 00:28:52,489 --> 00:28:51,089 solid stand yes this solid there's 705 00:28:54,829 --> 00:28:52,499 nothing he doesn't have anything up his 706 00:28:57,139 --> 00:28:54,839 sleeve I'm gonna hand over got a couple 707 00:28:58,969 --> 00:28:57,149 of wrists up my sleeve keep them here I 708 00:29:04,489 --> 00:28:58,979 think who are listening I want to 709 00:29:05,959 --> 00:29:04,499 describe what happens here you're also 710 00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:05,969 filming this yeah so that you can have a 711 00:29:09,439 --> 00:29:07,769 look on their website there's nothing 712 00:29:12,829 --> 00:29:09,449 these spoons I'm watching them here yeah 713 00:29:15,619 --> 00:29:12,839 they're a new grab one to you now before 714 00:29:17,569 --> 00:29:15,629 we start spoon bending is great it's a 715 00:29:19,339 --> 00:29:17,579 wonderful trick but bear in mind your 716 00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:19,349 eyes can be fooled and the great example 717 00:29:23,539 --> 00:29:21,809 of that is you take a an ordinary pen 718 00:29:25,429 --> 00:29:23,549 which I have here tap tap tap on the 719 00:29:27,289 --> 00:29:25,439 table it's system a cheapy pen you've 720 00:29:28,669 --> 00:29:27,299 done this trick before probably school 721 00:29:30,589 --> 00:29:28,679 kids do it you see how that looks like 722 00:29:32,059 --> 00:29:30,599 it's getting wobbly and bent it is 723 00:29:33,589 --> 00:29:32,069 bending you see that but they you know 724 00:29:35,929 --> 00:29:33,599 that's not the collusion by the way I'm 725 00:29:39,199 --> 00:29:35,939 waving the spoon yes you can get a 726 00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:39,209 similar effect with the saloon you have 727 00:29:43,399 --> 00:29:40,769 in your hand now look at that spoon yep 728 00:29:45,259 --> 00:29:43,409 bend it slightly for me just bend it 729 00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:45,269 slightly you see does it have any give 730 00:29:49,249 --> 00:29:46,919 or anything like that no I don't really 731 00:29:51,259 --> 00:29:49,259 know no all right so just tap it on your 732 00:29:54,499 --> 00:29:51,269 hand like that I'm doing that right now 733 00:29:55,849 --> 00:29:54,509 okay hold it by the neck yep you too 734 00:29:57,919 --> 00:29:55,859 every yep well holding it by the neck 735 00:29:59,839 --> 00:29:57,929 and just rub it here rub it with the 736 00:30:01,699 --> 00:29:59,849 neck and wiggle the bottom and you'll 737 00:30:03,409 --> 00:30:01,709 get the same optical illusion happening 738 00:30:06,769 --> 00:30:03,419 see how that looks like it's getting oh 739 00:30:09,889 --> 00:30:06,779 yeah weakly and bendy yep and just like 740 00:30:12,349 --> 00:30:09,899 the pen it's your eyes fooling your 741 00:30:13,699 --> 00:30:12,359 brain and it's such a strong effect that 742 00:30:15,259 --> 00:30:13,709 the more you do it you can really 743 00:30:17,749 --> 00:30:15,269 convince Pete yeah yeah it looks like 744 00:30:20,869 --> 00:30:17,759 it's doing it yo you're about to take it 745 00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:20,879 that it looks like it's been it does it 746 00:30:24,669 --> 00:30:22,100 looks like it yeah now 747 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:24,679 what certain people in Israel would do 748 00:30:28,450 --> 00:30:26,450 many years ago say I don't know what's 749 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:28,460 happening it's look it's getting rubbery 750 00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:30,770 and bending what's happening there look 751 00:30:37,930 --> 00:30:34,720 at that how are you doing that 752 00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:37,940 you've crap oh you've kept rubbing it 753 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:39,380 there I should explain 754 00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:41,450 the spoon has just split and thanks any 755 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:42,799 piece and take another one you've bent 756 00:30:45,820 --> 00:30:44,450 that yeah well there you go 757 00:30:47,710 --> 00:30:45,830 must be all true then I'd better pay 758 00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:47,720 myself the hundred thousand dollars yeah 759 00:30:55,930 --> 00:30:51,980 this gift I did it very well I thought 760 00:30:58,419 --> 00:30:55,940 don't you just let's have a spoon here 761 00:31:00,850 --> 00:30:58,429 because now that was this menu Gabi 762 00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:00,860 there's another way to do it and into 763 00:31:04,570 --> 00:31:03,230 two pieces yeah I mean I go I go through 764 00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:04,580 a lot of spoons the other way to do it 765 00:31:08,140 --> 00:31:05,960 is simply hold it like this 766 00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:08,150 yes all right with your thumb layer and 767 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:11,360 you start to rub it if you got one you 768 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:12,890 could pick one pick one of you you start 769 00:31:16,299 --> 00:31:14,510 to gently rub there now you are you left 770 00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:16,309 the right handed right hand right hold 771 00:31:19,899 --> 00:31:17,960 it in your right right start to hold it 772 00:31:22,029 --> 00:31:19,909 in my right yeah and rub it like that on 773 00:31:24,370 --> 00:31:22,039 brother with all sitting here by the way 774 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:24,380 rubbing spoons this is great and can you 775 00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:26,330 explain what's happening now would your 776 00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:28,460 spoon your spoons looks like it's had a 777 00:31:34,390 --> 00:31:30,200 dose of Viagra because we handle is 778 00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:34,400 actually now isn't going out isn't going 779 00:31:40,090 --> 00:31:37,940 up what there we go look at that how did 780 00:31:42,669 --> 00:31:40,100 you do that I again I think I did it 781 00:31:44,649 --> 00:31:42,679 very well especially on radio but that's 782 00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,659 terrific else didn't Bend at all that 783 00:31:49,539 --> 00:31:47,840 now it would be wrong of me and I know 784 00:31:51,159 --> 00:31:49,549 everyone's dying to know how did you do 785 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:51,169 that how did you do that to spill 786 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:53,330 magicians secrets it's not that it's not 787 00:31:57,940 --> 00:31:54,650 a good thing to do it's unprofessional 788 00:31:59,950 --> 00:31:57,950 it's not very good but if I can come in 789 00:32:01,690 --> 00:31:59,960 here in the studio and bend and break a 790 00:32:03,460 --> 00:32:01,700 spoon for you and make one melt and bend 791 00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:03,470 over it's no stretch of the imagination 792 00:32:07,149 --> 00:32:05,390 to think the well anybody can really 793 00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:07,159 learn how to do then trick and do it so 794 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:08,750 well that people are flabbergast so that 795 00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:10,370 is that is an amazing trick you've done 796 00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:11,480 you're going to tell us how you did it I 797 00:32:23,470 --> 00:32:20,510 maybe later business background yeah 798 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:23,480 I've currently I do little part to do 799 00:32:27,490 --> 00:32:25,250 bit parts in fact I think I'm on home 800 00:32:30,430 --> 00:32:27,500 and away this week in am as a minor role 801 00:32:32,380 --> 00:32:30,440 really yeah and many years ago I was on 802 00:32:34,139 --> 00:32:32,390 the Seven Network in a show called the 803 00:32:35,729 --> 00:32:34,149 one the search for Australia 804 00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:35,739 greatest psychic or something where I 805 00:32:43,109 --> 00:32:41,769 was the sceptical judge of course you 806 00:32:46,379 --> 00:32:43,119 the guy in the corner going look I don't 807 00:32:49,829 --> 00:32:46,389 quite know this week I think I'm a 808 00:32:51,119 --> 00:32:49,839 minister so you get to do lots of 809 00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:51,129 different things when you do a little 810 00:32:54,479 --> 00:32:53,049 bit part act no we should explain the 811 00:32:56,879 --> 00:32:54,489 Australian skeptics we only got a minute 812 00:32:58,709 --> 00:32:56,889 to go but they were offering $100,000 813 00:33:01,169 --> 00:32:58,719 for anyone who can prove that they do 814 00:33:03,689 --> 00:33:01,179 have a psychic if you were the lucky gal 815 00:33:05,369 --> 00:33:03,699 if you can actually bend spoons get in 816 00:33:08,369 --> 00:33:05,379 touch with Richard and the Australian 817 00:33:10,619 --> 00:33:08,379 skeptics they'll set up a test to you to 818 00:33:13,109 --> 00:33:10,629 really determine whether or not that is 819 00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:13,119 correct a test completely done in 820 00:33:18,629 --> 00:33:15,279 cooperation with the person coming to us 821 00:33:20,309 --> 00:33:18,639 for the claim we work very hard to make 822 00:33:22,169 --> 00:33:20,319 people happy especially water diviners 823 00:33:25,019 --> 00:33:22,179 we've tested over the years and in the 824 00:33:30,259 --> 00:33:25,029 30 years plus of these tests in 825 00:33:35,999 --> 00:33:32,969 the spoon is in two pieces 826 00:33:38,429 --> 00:33:36,009 and he's only used his finger on it end 827 00:33:39,689 --> 00:33:38,439 of one quite remarkable got me which is 828 00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:39,699 great to have you in this morning thank 829 00:33:44,860 --> 00:34:04,290 [Music] 830 00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:06,580 thank you for listening to the skeptic 831 00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:09,230 zone with the rain still there dripping 832 00:34:13,870 --> 00:34:11,750 down outside the window and more the cat 833 00:34:16,830 --> 00:34:13,880 in the window frame looking out at the 834 00:34:20,410 --> 00:34:16,840 world and there's another bird out there 835 00:34:23,350 --> 00:34:20,420 more thunder coming up on next week's 836 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:23,360 show more from the recent Australian 837 00:34:27,820 --> 00:34:26,090 skeptics convention skeptic on with may 838 00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:27,830 not interviewing all sorts of people he 839 00:34:32,890 --> 00:34:30,800 did so much it's great because you get 840 00:34:35,169 --> 00:34:32,900 to enjoy his interviews over many weeks 841 00:34:36,910 --> 00:34:35,179 and again thank you to those people who 842 00:34:38,740 --> 00:34:36,920 contribute via PayPal or patreon I 843 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:38,750 noticed patreon wanted to change their 844 00:34:45,220 --> 00:34:40,490 terms and conditions and methods of 845 00:34:46,870 --> 00:34:45,230 payments and percentages and all that 846 00:34:49,330 --> 00:34:46,880 sort of thing and there was a huge 847 00:34:51,610 --> 00:34:49,340 backlash and patreon wrote to all the 848 00:34:56,530 --> 00:34:51,620 producers and said whoops no we're not 849 00:34:58,450 --> 00:34:56,540 doing that after all so good and before 850 00:35:00,610 --> 00:34:58,460 I go because we've had a request I've 851 00:35:02,170 --> 00:35:00,620 had a request I'll do the dice game 852 00:35:03,490 --> 00:35:02,180 again for those of you who don't know 853 00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:03,500 every now and then every couple of 854 00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:04,880 months I'll roll a couple of dice here 855 00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:09,110 on the table and you get to predict what 856 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:13,150 the number is I've got a 601 and a 857 00:35:18,610 --> 00:35:15,970 20-sided so we'll start with the six so 858 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:18,620 here we go rolling the dice so predict 859 00:35:26,830 --> 00:35:24,890 predict predict four there we go lucky 860 00:35:29,530 --> 00:35:26,840 people who've got four and I'll roll the 861 00:35:37,150 --> 00:35:29,540 20-sided one now so predict number 862 00:35:38,650 --> 00:35:37,160 between from one to 2018 it sounds like 863 00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:38,660 the lotto numbers so if you got four and 864 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:40,790 eighteen well done well done 865 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:42,890 until next week this is Richard Saunders 866 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:44,930 signing off from the Thunder and the 867 00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:53,970 you've been listening to the skeptic 868 00:36:03,540 --> 00:35:56,880 zone podcast please visit our website at 869 00:36:07,069 --> 00:36:03,550 wwlp.com tax and to access the bat 870 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:07,079 catalog of episodes going back to 2008 871 00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:09,730 you can follow the skeptic zone podcast 872 00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:13,030 on twitter at skeptic zone visit our 873 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:15,310 facebook page or leave a review on 874 00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,170 itunes 875 00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:18,880 you can also support the skeptic zone 876 00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:22,780 via patreon or PayPal you can be part of 877 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:25,359 the show by downloading the voice byte 878 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:29,770 app at Voice bite comm and using the 879 00:36:35,839 --> 00:36:33,130 hashtag skeptic zone the skeptic zone 880 00:36:38,220 --> 00:36:35,849 podcast is an independent production 881 00:36:40,349 --> 00:36:38,230 reviews and opinions expressed on the 882 00:36:42,690 --> 00:36:40,359 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 883 00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:42,700 of Australian skeptics or any other